STEVE HACKETT, Beyond The Shrouded Horizon

Steve Hackett, de voormalige gitarist van Genesis, houdt het tempo er flink in, ook al is hij de zestig gepasseerd. Terwijl zijn vorige album ruim een jaar geleden uitkwam, ligt er nu alweer een nieuw album in de schappen. Hij heeft inmiddels ruim twintig soloalbums opgenomen sinds 1975. In juni dit jaar hertrouwde Steve met Jo Lehmann, sloot de tegen hem aangespannen rechtszaken met succes af en kon weer over zijn eigen studio beschikken. De aimabele artiest had het een en ander te vertellen over zijn laatste geesteskind Beyond The Shrouded Horizon, dat opgenomen werd met zijn huidige live band met als gasten Chris Squire (bas), Simon Phillips (drums), Ben Fenner (keyboards), John Hackett (fluit), Dick Driver (contrabas), Christine Townsend (viool) en Richard Stuart (cello).

Je hebt weer een prachtig nieuw album opgenomen dat vermoedelijk in prettiger omstandigheden tot stand is gekomen?

"Dank je! Zeker! Hoewel ik moet toegeven dat het werken in de huiskamer in plaats van in een studio tot verbluffende resultaten heeft geleid, wens ik toch niemand toe dat je je toevlucht moet nemen tot de modernste technologie omdat je de eigen studio niet in mag. De druk was nu echter wel van de ketel en het is toch heerlijk om de drums gewoon te kunnen opnemen en je gitaargeluid over de speakers te horen. De eerlijkheid gebied te zeggen dat ondanks deze faciliteiten toch een deel van het album is opgenomen met virtuele versterkers via een lap top, dus soms is toch het de computer machtiger dan de  studio. Voor onder meer Turn This Island Earth, Catwalk, de partijen van Chris Squire, de drums van Simon Phillips en die van Gary O'Toole is de studio gebruikt."

Het hoesontwerp is een zeer sfeervolle foto: hoe ben je tot deze keuze gekomen?

"De foto is gemaakt door Harry Pearce met wie ik al eerder heb gewerkt. Hij is een fan van mijn muziek en speelt zelf ook niet onverdienstelijk. Verder is hij, net als ik overigens, een fan van Ry Cooder. Hij nam de foto van een Balinese tempel in Banjar Baung in Indonesië rond een uur of vier 's morgens, net voordat het licht werd. Het is alsof de horizon enigszins verborgen (shrouded) is in de mist. De symboliek van het 'verborgen zijn' heeft te maken met mijn periode in Genesis waarbij de mystiek van het niet in de toekomst kunnen kijken een belangrijke rol speelde."

Kun je in het kort vertellen hoe het album tot stand is gekomen en waarom je ondanks je geweldige liveband toch illustere gasten hebt uitgenodigd?

"Uiteraard is Jo Lehmann naast Roger King mede verantwoordelijk voor de composities. Soms komen songs en zeker teksten voort uit conversaties tussen ons drieën. Het is een soloalbum, maar in feite is het een samenwerking van mij en al die fantastische muzikanten. Jo heeft daarnaast alle zakelijke aspecten onder haar hoede genomen. De orkestrale arrangementen waren niet mogelijk geweest zonder de bijdragen van Dick Driver, Richard Stuart en Christine Townsend. Voor Chris Squire en Simon Phillips lag dat anders. Sommige songs dateren al van enkele jaren geleden, maar ik moest ze terzijde leggen omdat de rechten voor mijn muziek werden aangevochten. Ik werkte aan Chris Squire's kerstalbum Swiss Choir toen ik hem vroeg of hij wat partijen voor mijn muziek wilde inspelen. Dat deed hij uiteraard, totdat ik met Nick Beggs voor de liveshows ging werken. Ik kwam er achter wat een veelzijdige bassist en stickspeler hij is. Hij bespeelt een Chapman-stick een Music Man en een Rickenbacker en hij kan in principe elk type bassist vervangen. Hij heeft vervolgens alle andere partijen voor zijn rekening genomen. Ik heb onvoorstelbaar veel mazzel dat ik steeds tegen zulke talentvolle muzikanten aanloop!"

Ben je nu niet wat te bescheiden? Ik denk dat veel mensen maar wat graag met jou samenwerken vanwege jouw eigen niet geringe talenten!

"Ach, ik doe mijn best, hè..? Jaren geleden zei eens iemand tegen me: het enige verschil tussen een amateur en een prof is dat een prof het blijft proberen! Ik probeer het nog steeds om het 'goed' te krijgen."

Je beschreef je nieuwe album als 'zeventiende eeuwse dansdeuntjes tot een op hol geslagen kudde geluiden', dus een enorme diversiteit?

"Sommige mensen maken een onderscheid tussen diversiteit in muziek en progressieve muziek, waarbij progressief inhoudt dat er gebruik wordt gemaakt van instrumenten die een orkest vervangen zoals een Hammond, een Mellotron of een synthesizer. Niet dat ik niet van het karaktervolle geluid van een Hammond houd, of de fluiten, strings of koorstemmen van een Mellotron, maar sinds die tijd zijn er wel heel veel presets ontwikkeld die we kunnen gebruiken. De gitaar is een instrument met vele toepassingsmogelijkheden en ik probeer dikwijls om mijn gitaargeluid op een vrouwenstem te laten lijken. Een van de grootste complimenten die een violist naar mijn mening kan krijgen is dat de viool 'zingt'. Of je in staat bent een luisteraar of een publiek te 'raken' is best moeilijk als je een song schrijft. Je doet je werk als songschrijver en of je als live artiest uiteindelijk in staat bent om de vonk te laten overspringen blijkt pas op dat moment. Zelf hoor je geen uitgebalanceerd geluid en ik vind live spelen vaak een worstelwedstrijd; je worstelt om jezelf goed te horen, om met een goed gestemd instrument te spelen om contact te hebben met de band en het publiek, dus in zekere zin is het spitsroeden lopen, maar wel leuk! In het publiek zie je de lichteffecten en hoor je normaliter een goed uitgebalanceerd geluid dus op dat moment is een song niet meer voor de mensen die deze geschreven hebben of voor de mensen op het podium, maar maakt het publiek zich de song eigen."     

Ruim een jaar geleden vertelde je me dat je met Chris Squire aan een album werkt. Hoe staat het daarmee?

"Het album is klaar! Om zowel artiesten en platenmaatschappij tevreden te houden, is niet altijd gemakkelijk. Er wordt druk onderhandeld met een platenmaatschappij en hopelijk leidt dit snel tot een positief resultaat, want het album had al lang uitgebracht kunnen zijn. Behalve Chris en ikzelf spelen op het album drummer Jeremy Stacey, zangeres Amanda Lehmann en toetsenist-producer Roger King."

Je bent geregeld te horen bij andere artiesten, onlangs nog bij John Wetton, Rob Reed's Magenta en Steven Wilson. Hoe komen die gastoptredens tot stand?

"In principe zijn dit vriendendiensten, want gelukkig hoef ik het niet voor het geld te doen. Als iemand iets aan het doen is wat ik muzikaal gezien interessant vind dan duik ik er in en dan worden we automatisch vrienden. We hebben dan die ongrijpbare passie voor muziek samen gedeeld, weet je. Zo ben ik er trots op een van de gitaristen te zijn op het album Dirty & Beautiful van Gary Husband met onder meer John McLaughlin. Ik speelde bewust een heel erg ingetogen solo op dat prachtige nummer Goodbye Elsinore van John Wetton's laatste album Raised In Captivity, bedoeld als alternatief voor zijn zanglijn. Wat zingt John spectaculair goed zeg, en wat een mooi refrein heeft die track! Voor Rob Reed deed ik wat akoestisch gitaarwerk en inderdaad speelde ik ook mee op het laatste album van Steven Wilson. Daarentegen stonden Steve Wilson en John Wetton met mij op het podium in London in Shepherd's Bush."

Matt Groom van Big Beak Productions is een documentaire over jou aan het maken, begrijp ik?

"Ja, dat klopt, maar het is niet iets waarvoor ik hem heb ingehuurd. Het was zijn eigen initiatief. Af en toe loopt hij binnen en filmt wat als ik bijvoorbeeld aan het zwoegen ben om een gitaarstuk onder de knie te krijgen. Ik heb geen idee of het over mijn hele leven gaat of alleen de laatste periode. Ik ben slechts degene die geïnterviewd wordt. Overigens doet hij iets geheel anders voor zijn beroep. Hij is manager van RSK maar zijn achtergrond is in het maken van films."

Dan nu over Beyond The Shrouded Horzion. Zou je per track een korte toelichting kunnen geven?

"Natuurlijk! Loch Lomond en The Phoenix Flown waren oorspronkelijk één nummer, maar ze hadden een 'fade out' als in Strawberry Fields Forever van The Beatles en dan complete stilte, waaruit men concludeerde dat het twee tracks waren, dus uiteindelijk hebben we dat ook maar gedaan. Loch Lomond verandert van stijl als een afleidingstruc net voor een hinderlaag en wordt op het einde puur instrumentaal. Deze song bleef door mijn hoofd spoken met telkens nieuwe toevoegingen als gevolg. Muzikaal gezien is The Phoenix Flown enigszins beïnvloed door Borodin: ik dacht aan twee akkoorden en een baspartij waarbij het vocale deel in de gitaarpartij gereflecteerd wordt. Een soort van oost-ontmoet-west-gevoel. Verder zijn er invloeden uit Schotland, Ierland en uit de Keltische muziek. Het is een soort visitekaartje voor het album, rockmuziek in zijn volle omvang met een beperkt hergebruik van de baslijn uit Cell 151. De track zit vol tegenstrijdigheden, als een plek die eigenlijk niet kan bestaan alleen in je verbeelding. Ook het tussenstukje op akoestische gitaar is geïnspireerd op werk van Borodin, op stukjes die je zou kunnen vinden in Prince Igor, erg romantisch en een mooie overgang tussen de tracks die respectievelijk in E-majeur en C-majeur staan: die laatste is Til These Eyes. Een liedje over verloren en hervonden liefde. De beloning komt pas aan het einde : 'til these eyes have seen enough' wordt dan het positievere  'til these eyes have seen love'."

In het volgende nummer ben je beïnvloed door Jack Kerouac's boek On the Road'en qua zang door Bob Seger. Ben je een fan van hem?

"Jazeker! Ik hou van zijn stijl van zingen, zo direct en kortaf met een zekere wanhoop in zijn stem. Ik heb getracht iets van zijn stijl in mijn zang te leggen.  Kerouac beschrijft diverse karakters en dat in combinatie met de enorme open ruimtes die je in de States kunt vinden bracht mij tot A Place Called Freedom, een soort 'western' voor het oor, dat eerst samen met Prairie Angel één nummer was. Vanwege het verschil in stijl heb ik ze gescheiden en bij Prairie Angel dacht ik aan de tijd van de kolonisten: de liefde tussen een Indiaans meisje en een blanke kolonist."

Dan krijgen we Between The Sunset And The Coconut Palms?

"Correct. Die titel komt uit een sketch van Peter Sellers maar om hem te begrijpen moet je de sketch gezien hebben. De idee erachter is romantiek: meegaan op een schip dat naar het onbekende vaart. In het midden is een stukje met een beetje krampachtig ritme waarbij ik zonnebadende mensen op een strand in gedachten had, kampvuurtje, dansen, dat soort dingen. Dan komt Waking To Life, gezongen door Amanda Lehmann met invloeden uit zowel India als Japan: oosters en exotisch."

In Two Faces Of Cairo ben je geïnspireerd door een sfinx?

"Ja. Terwijl ik naar die sfinx stond te kijken, hoorde ik als het ware muziek uit een ver verleden. Ik heb wat aantekeningen gemaakt en ben daarmee verder gegaan, waarbij ik op mijn gitaar het typisch oosterse gebruik van kwarttonen, vanuit de Arabische muziek van India en Azerbeidjan wilde implementeren. Een mix tussen militarisme en romantiek, het contrast tussen het statige oude Egypte en de extreme armoede aan de andere kant van Cairo in de krottenwijken. Mensen die daar leven tussen de doden in hun graven, zonder straatverlichting. Ik heb me er hooglijk over verbaasd dat er nog zo lang gewacht is met protesteren, want dit speelde nog voor alle politieke onrust. Voor Looking For Fantasy had ik een droom waarin Jimi Hendrix een gratis concert gaf en deze melodie zong. Het leek mij een klaagzang over het feit dat hij zo ontijdig aan zijn eind moest komen. Qua tekst heb ik gedacht aan al die optimistische naïeve meisjes in de flower powerperiode. Door drugs kwamen veel van die meisjes vroegtijdig aan hun einde of liepen duurzaam letsel op en verkeren vandaag de dag in deplorabele toestand. Dat gevoel van onvervulde wensdromen heb ik getracht te vertolken vanuit een liefdevolle terugblik."

Na opnieuw een akoestisch stukje komt de wat rauwe blues in Catwalk?

"Summer's Breath, zoals vaak geïnspireerd door werk van Segovia, is een moment dat je je letterlijk kunt terugtrekken uit de fantasiewereld en je vanuit deze Spaanse siësta kunt storten in Catwalk, waarschijnlijk het meest basale en minst subtiele nummer op het album. Het trio Hackett, Squire en Phillips beeldt de starende blik uit die mannequins hebben als ze op de catwalk paraderen, potentiële 'femmes fatales' met hun blik van 'pak me als je durft' in hun ogen. De laatste track was een nachtmerrie voor Roger: hij moest zijn computer updaten om de meer dan driehonderd sporen te kunnen opslaan, want de computer weigerde in eerste instantie het nummer af te spelen. Turn This Island Earth is een terugkeer naar thema's zoals die bij Genesis opdoken: de idee van ruimtereizen, Watcher Of The Skies en escapisme. Wat in de jaren vijftig nog fantasie was, is echter vandaag de dag werkelijkheid geworden. Het verhaal begon in Starbuck's, waar Jo en ik een capuccino dronken. We begonnen te mijmeren en voordat we het wisten waren we bezig met een Sinbad de Zeeman-achtige reis. Beelden van Alladin, Disney, Pinokkio: het is eigenlijke een ode aan de film. met heel veel orkestrale inbreng en de meest gedetailleerde track die ik ooit opgenomen heb."

Dan nog iets over de tweede cd voor degenen die de 'special edition' zou kopen?

"Uiteraard. Cd2 is eigenlijk een verzameling gitaarsolo's, wat klassieke muziek en een enkele echte song. Er staat onder meer een cover op van Focus, de Nederlandse band met Thijs van Leer, die het nummer schreef, en Jan Akkerman die er een prachtige gitaarmelodie overheen zette. Het gaat om mijn interpretatie van Tommy uit het nummer Eruption, oorspronkelijk een bonustrack op een Japanse editie, maar inmiddels hebben wij de rechten ervan terug gekregen. Er staat ook een heel aparte versie op van Airconditioned Nightmare, die Roger en ik deden en arrangeerden tot Reconditioned Nightmare. De eerste track is met Simon Phillips en Chris Squire en dan gaat het door in 'de vier winden' met improvisaties in verschillende stijlen."

Naar welke muziek luister je zelf eigenlijk?

"Oh, ik luister naar van alles, maar ik hou van zangstemmen met een snelle vibrato, emotionele stemmen. Denk daarbij bijvoorbeeld aan Ney Matogrosso (Brazilië) of Bob Seger en niet te vergeten Roy Orbison. Ach, als ik toch zo kon zingen dan was ik een puike zanger, maar helaas ben ik in essentie een gitarist die tevens invalt voor een zanger die ontbreekt, zo zie ik het tenminste. Ik probeer echter wel om mijn mogelijkheden uit te breiden."

Ik las ergens dat je nog steeds spijt hebt van je beslissing om Genesis te verlaten. Als dat waar is, dan hadden we al deze prachtige studioalbums niet gehad!

"Hah! Da's zeker. Om je de waarheid te zeggen: ik heb géén spijt van die beslissing om uit Genesis te stappen en dat lijkt een tegenstrijdigheid in de tijd. Een deel van mijn hart blijft altijd in Genesis, maar toentertijd werd me duidelijk gemaakt dat groepslid blijven niet samen zou kunnen gaan met een solocarrière. Ik achtte mijn trouw aan de muziek belangrijker dan de trouw aan wat mogelijk de beste band ter wereld was op dat moment. Ook al was ik lid geweest van The Beatles en ik zou al mijn muzikale ideeën ondergeschikt hebben moeten maken aan de groep, dan had ik nog dezelfde beslissing genomen. In essentie bestaat mijn relatie met muziek uit het herinvesteren van alles wat ik heb, zowel financieel als emotioneel, dat is wat ik doe. Een succes als met mijn voorlaatste album maakt het mij mogelijk er van te leven en te blijven herinvesteren."

Wat is je volgende project?

"Dat is dus het in 5:1 mixen van opnames van ons concert in Sheperd's Bush (London). De setlist daar was iets anders dan vorig jaar in Zoetermeer. Ik denk dat we daar Shadow Of The Hierophant en Sierra Quemada niet hebben gespeeld, terwijl we in London ook een cover van All Along The Watchtower hebben gespeeld."

Kun je al iets zeggen over wat je op 26 november in Zoetermeer gaat spelen?

"Da's grappig, want ik heb er net gisteren over gesproken met Amanda Lehmann. Ik denk dat we Loch Lomond, The Phoenix Flown en Waiting For Life te gaan doen. Ik ben ook naar andere stukken aan het kijken, zoals Prairie Angel en A Place Called Freedom. Mogelijk dat we ook Two Faces Of Cairo gaan spelen. Als we gaan repeteren wordt pas duidelijk wat wel en niet kan. Hetzelfde geldt voor de oudere songs. We willen niet steeds hetzelfde spelen maar we proberen toch iedereen tevreden te houden met een goede balans. Meer kan ik er op dit moment nog niet over zeggen."

ENGLISH:

Beyond The Shrouded Horizons is the 27th studio album by former Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett and the successor to the highly acclaimed Out Of The Tunnels Mouth. Steve found new happiness with Jo Lehmann whom he married on June 4 this year. With his current live band, including Jo Lehmann's sister Amanda and a number of celebrities Steve recorded this album. Special guests are Chris Squire (bass), Simon Phillips (drums), Dick Driver (double bass), Ben Fenner (keyboards), John Hackett (flute), Christine Townsend (violin) and  Richard Stuart (cello). Another great album by the gifted guitarist of which I can only recommend the special edition with a truly nice bonus disc. Steve will be performing live throughout Europe in the fall and particularly the show in Zoetermeer should be in the agenda of every Dutch prog-fan! Steve was eager to share the background of the music and artwork of this album and this is what he had to say...

Hi Steve, just over a year ago we talked about the superb Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth and it seems you're getting busier than ever because you've done it again!

"Well, yes I try to be a busy boy, you know, the clock is ticking and I'm trying to get the most out of it. I've been quite slow for about twenty years."

You're just over 60 now, so usually people try to slow down a bit?

"Oh no, I can't. I don't know how to!"

By the way congratulations with your marriage with Jo in June! Viewing all the pictures it must have been a beautiful day and it means a new phase in your life?

"Yes it really was a beautiful day, a little windy perhaps but sunshine everywhere, it was fantastic. Indeed it means a new phase absolutely, new energy and it's very pleasant thank you!"

It must have felt great to be back in your own studio again?  Does it mean your days in court are over?

"As much as I enjoyed working at home, these were more difficult conditions and with the pressure off we were able to work under more normal circumstances. Indeed it means my days in court are over. Everything has been sorted out, so it's plain sailing from now on. I wouldn't wish litigation on anybody, but I think it's produced some extremely good results, in adversity, if you know what I mean."

No doubt Jo has been an ongoing source of inspiration for you again. What was her role in the making of Beyond The Shrouded Horizons?

"She wrote songs along with me; also I worked with Roger King. We work very closely, side by side and pretty much every day and I think it's produced some very good results. Jo has been actively working with me and she also involved in running the business so she is a very busy girl! She demonstrated to be a really clever songwriter too. Many songs have been born out of musical conversations and sometimes just regular conversations. It throws up imagery to use with songs, subjects for songs. I like to think it's a team that build each album and that's what's going on at the moment. Even if it is a solo album there are many people involved with the performances on this album. The band, but also the orchestral contributions by the string players Dick Driver, Richard Stuart and Christine Townsend have been outstanding. They're all brilliant players actually."

Is Christine she by any chance related to Rob Townsend, who plays flutes and sax in your band?

"Ha, ha, ha, no she is not, strangely enough, nor to Pete Townshend (The Who - MvBF) but nevertheless she's a great player."

The cover is a picture taken by Harry Pearce from Banjar Baung on Bali (Indonesia). What's the story behind this choice?

"Yes, that's correct. It's taken around four in the morning, just before the light comes up. We were working along the title of the album that had something to do with travelling. We were thinking about the idea of a 'shrouded horizons' and we were thinking of sea pictures. But then he did this thing on this temple, which was actually a larger picture, stretching out over a lake which had mist coming up, but we found we couldn't make that work to square it up with the album sleeve. So we used a cropped version to fit it into album sleeve shape. It's very beautiful and it seems as if the horizon has been shrouded in mist. Shrouded in mist is very much a Genesis idea; a shrouded horizon tends to mean symbolically not being able to see into the future. You would want to pear into it, you're dying to know what's gonna happen, but you just have to wait, that's how it works."  

Do you know Harry Pearce through Jo since they are colleagues?

"Actually no. I've worked with Harry on many occasions. He's been involved in many album sleeves and with the layout of those sleeves. He's a designer who has done many books, many album sleeves. Not just for myself but also for Roy Harper, classical people and he's also designed part of museum like the Science Museum in London for instance. He also works with Peter Gabriel and Amnesty, the witness program I think. It all goes full circle, because Harry loves to play guitar. He's also a nylon guitar enthusiast and he likes to play himself and he loves blues and classical, all the things that I do! He's a big fan of Ry Cooder too. He likes his music to be intimate sounding, just one or two instruments."

Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth has been recorded in your living room. The new album again in your own studio. How did it feel? No headphones, pounding drums again?

"Well, we did use amplifiers this time, but also virtual amplification within the box, so the box is a little bit mightier than the building sometimes. The computer really is the inner building, the outer building is the studio in a way. We used physical space for it, but not as much as you might think. We used it for recording the bass stuff with Chris Squire, the drums by Simon Phillips and Gary O'Toole, for tracks like Turn This Island Earth and Catwalk."

You just mentioned Squire and Phillips, several distinguished guests but you have a fantastic live band: why choosing other musicians as well?

"I started the album some years ago and some of it had to be put on one side until we'd finished certain other things and the rights were contested to some of the earlier material before I went through the court case. It was when I just finished working on Chris Squire's Christmas album, when I said to him if he would want to work on my stuff, so he came in and worked on my stuff until I started working with Nick Beggs on the live shows. Nick was fantastic because he was able to do an extraordinary impression of all sorts of bass players. Sometimes he uses a Rickenbacker, a Music Man but he was able to do fretless too and he plays the Chapman stick! So I have been surrounded by great bass players and great drummers. I don't know what I've done to deserve to be surrounded by such talent. They really have been quite extraordinary, all of them."

I think you're too modest now since you are a truly great talent yourself!

"Well, I try know. Years ago somebody said to me: the only difference between an amateur and a professional is that a professional keeps trying! I just try to get it right."

In your own words you described the album seventeenth century dance ditty to the heavy thrust of a stampeding army of sound. Why such a diversity?

"I think that some people draw a distinction between diverse music and progressive music and progressive music seems to imply the use of analogue keyboards in order to create that effect of an orchestra. Your Hammond organ, your Mellotron, your practically monophonic synth; it's almost like the Pre-Raphealites, almost like the 'predigi-ites'. Obviously since then there's a thousand presets and sounds we can use. So much as I love all of that, there's nothing wrong with a Hammond: I love it because it's a very adaptable characterful sounding thing as is the Mellotron, particularly Mellotron strings and brass, flutes and not to mention the voices. But there is a world beyond that and there are so many instruments I'm thrilled to the sound of that I work with at the moment. Also I think the guitar is a very adaptable instrument: it could sound like so many things, it's a little bit like a voice, isn't it? You take away the percussion and decay with the use of a sustainer pickup, e-bow or any other way of expanding a note and it really is the closest thing to a woman's voice that I can think of. I think the highest compliment for an instrumentalist, for example a violinist, is to say it sounds like a voice. I look for that in the guitar certainly and I also think it's the audience, it's the listener that owns the song at the end of the day, not the performers or the writers, you know. They do what they do and go on to the next thing, but if gets resident in someone heart or mind, that's the prerogative. It's the world of the listener. I have my heroes and my favorite tunes that will move me to tears or make me laugh or energize me. To be able to do that to yourself when you know you lived through the anxiety of every influence, it's much harder because you are aware of a certain alchemy that takes place. It's a bit like creating fire: you know all about the flints you rub together in order to do that, you're very aware of the root of each thing. It's somewhere between the roots and the mechanics of each song. When you play live you don't really know if it's working or not, you just get an idea from the audience because on stage you're not getting the balance that's heard. Performing live can sometimes be like an all in wrestling match: you're wrestling with being able to hear yourself for a start, being able to keep yourself in tune and time. You're walking kind of a tight rope but have fun! The benefit of being a member of the audience is you're seeing sound and lights at a selection of balance, it's not actually designed for the people on stage. Neither are songs really designed for the people who sing and play them... as I said, the audience owns the song at the end of the day!"

Talking about Chris Squire: he participated on Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth too and last time you told me that the two of you are working on something. What's the status of that project or album?

"A deal is being negotiated at the moment with a record company that I hope will produce a fruitful result. It's been a long time coming, you know in order to keep a number of people happy, both the record company and the artists. That album has Jeremy Stacey on drums, Amanda Lehman on vocals, of course there's me and Chris and Roger King on keyboards as well and also Roger producing. The album is finished and I hope it will be out soon."

Then the new album of which you are very proud I presume. You already explained a lot of things about the album on your website, but maybe you'd like to go through the songs and mention the most important things like influences and sources of inspiration?

"Yeah sure. Loch Lomond and The Phoenix Flown were one track, but we had a false ending, a fade out, a little bit the same as in Strawberry Fields Forever, except we went down to a frozen reverb on it and people were always saying to me: oh are that two separate tracks? In the end we chose to have them on the album as separate tracks. There's a different feeling once it goes to the pure instrumental at the end. Loch Lomond is a song that shifts and changes genre like a decoy before an ambush. I thought I knew the language of the guitar, but it kept coming at me when I least expected it: it kept me awake at night, it kept haunting me and the song was getting longer and I found I couldn't really turn away the ideas even though we were working on it. We were thinking it was a bit long but it didn't feel like it by the time the whole thing was done. The second half, The Phoenix Flown, I was thinking of influences musically, the kind of phrases Borodin uses. I was thinking of two chords and just fundamental bass over most of it. There's a vocal melody that's reflected in the guitar work, that comes back, a sort of sense of renewed life, the idea of a dream reborn with a certain purpose, almost as if you were feet on the ground and head in the clouds. Those phrases could equally be  played by a string orchestra and could be handled in an orchestral way. Even if it's electric and it's really a group, it's still inspired by these orchestral ideas by Borodin. A sort of East meets West feeling."

There are both Oriental but also Scottish influences there I suppose?

"That's right, but there's the Celtic thing and also the Irish thing as well. It's certainly influenced by that and I've used the influence of the bagpipes and the guitar sounding a little as bagpipes as well. It makes sense to me and in a way it's a sort of flagship track for the rest of the album. Once you've come on board and the rest of the band kicks in with that powerful driving rhythm, it's rock music to its fullest. There's a little bit of re-using the bass lines that I had on Cell 151, where I had basses and cellos doing it. It's driven by guitar, by strings, electronics and real drums and it's certainly the most powerful track on the album and a song with contradictions as well, like a place that can't really exist, only in your imagination."

Then we have a piece on the acoustic guitar?

"Yes, Wanderlust is a sort of an interlude influenced by Borodin again. The kind of phrases you could find on Prince Igor, very romantic music at the same time. I used that interlude as a kind of conveyance between the two separate keys of E major and C major, which is the next track, Til These Eyes. That's really a song of love lost and found, a song of moving on through sadness and pain, but the pay-off is in the very last line of the altered chorus which changes from Til These Eyes have seen enough to the positive 'til these eyes have seen love'. Prairie Angel is not a love song really. Prairie Angel and A Place Called Freedom were originally one song, but I decided to separate them in two songs. People who like the love stuff could tune into that, the more melodic aspect, more country biased and go directly to A Place Called Freedom. This track was inspired by Jack Kerouac's book On The Road in one sense, by one of the characters he describes, the influence of the wide open spaces in America. A Place Called Freedom is really an attempt to do a 'western for the ear' rather than for the eye, a song that tracks the trails of the pioneers. I was thinking of love of an Indian girl and a white settler."

You stated on your site that Bob Seeger influenced your style of singing: are you a fan?

"Yes, sure! I like the fast delivery and the kind of desperateness in the sound of his voice so I tried to get some of that in my singing. I realize I sound nothing like Bob Seeger and I wouldn't really attempt in any way to sound like him, but it's just the idea of the desperateness in the voice. Like an actor taking on a different part: I think I sound different than I ever sung before, it's acting the role really."

That moves on to Between The Sunset And The Coconut Palms?

"This title is really from a sketch by Peter Sellers. I guess you'd have to hear the sketch to know what it's all about, but it was a romantic idea again. It's pure escapism, the idea of a night sea journey and refugees leaving behind a tattered world and in another sense it's following the boatman's call into the unknown. There's a jerky part in the middle : I was thinking of people having been marimned on a beach, dancing round the campfire type stuff."

Then we have Waking to Life sung by Amanda Lehmann with a kind of oriental feel?

"Indian influence and there's also some Japanese influence in there, but essentially it's 'eastern exotica'. I'm trying to contrast the use of ancient images - lyrically - interpreted by modern technology. And really it's from the point of view of a young girl, awakening beyond her personal shrouded horizons."

The next track has been written in Cairo. Did you actually look at a sphinx when you wrote this song?

Yes, I did! The virtual voyage continues with Two Faces Of Cairo and I was looking at the sphinx on the day and I was writing down phrases in a book. It was as if it was singing to me and I was just blown away by it and I could hear all this music, like this sphinx was a huge amplifier that seemed to be picking up music from if not another planet, from the ancient past. I was trying to think of melodies that would work on the guitar with the uses of quarter tones as you'll  find in Arabic music, the music of India and the music of Azerbeidzjan. That's where all those things link and again very hi-tech in a sense with drums as army. A mixture of military and romantic in there and the contrast of the majesty of the old kingdom of Egypt, the enigma of the sphinx with the other face of Cairo which is the desperate poverty of the people who live in a district where people are living literally with the dead in the graves, where there is no street lighting. I've found that tremendously disturbing but equally powerful images."

Have you actually seen that with your own eyes?

"Yes. And this was before all the political unrest, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. I was only surprised that it lasted so long and maybe religion kept everyone in their place but eventually their call had to be answered."

Next track is Looking For Fantasy.

"I had a dream, a Hendrix-dream and he was giving a free concert. He was singing this melody which seemed to be a lament for the fact that he ended his life so early and he felt the responsibility towards all the others that died under similar circumstances. So the melody was his but the lyrics? I was thinking along the lines of a lost generation of flower girls and every now and then I find a friend who bit in the dust and I find that tremendously upsetting. So it's an affectionate look at a composite picture of a number of girls who were around in the sixties with that mixture of optimism and naivety which was so prevalent during the use of drug-culture . A sense of the unfulfilled longing of that generation of women. Many of whom are in desperate circumstances today, if they managed to survive. But above all it's the  affectionate look at that."

Than an interlude again?

"Right. Summer's Breath is a sort of an interlude to allow you to literally draw back from fantasy to Catwalk, which is a more bluesy thing. Summer's Breath is influenced by Spanish music and the idea of a sort of siesta on the beach if there were such a thing. The work of Segovia is not far away whenever I pick up a nylon guitar. His influence is always an eternal dream of Segovia's sun-drenched Spain: languid, lyrical, romantic and that idea of dreaming with music that he had so much, which really sets you up for the beginning of Catwalk, which steams in in the midst of all that siesta. It's probably the most basic, urban and bluesy track on the album and the least subtle one. It's a trio with myself, Simon Phillips and Chris Squire. It's all really about the 'catwalk stare', all those models with their staring eyes and the clack of their cruel stilettos. It's the urgency, isn't it, the major instinct and the kind of  'come and get me if you dare'. There's potential 'femme fatales' I think."   

The final track of the regular edition is the epic?

"Yeah, Turn This Island Earth is a kind of return to some of the themes Genesis came up with in the early days. The idea of space travel, I was thinking of Watcher Of The Skies. It's sort of twinned with that in a sense. Pure escapism   in terms of a trip around the universe, but of course it isn't as much escapism as it was when people were in the  fifties, writing sci-fi novels or making sci-fi movies. But fantasy became fact and nowadays space travel is an everyday occurrence, it's no longer the exotic impossible thing that it was one day. The story started off in Starbuck's. I was there with my wife Jo, sharing a cappuccino. It started off with a cappuccino and as we were talking it ended up being a journey around the universe, a Sinbad type of journey."

Sometimes it sounds like a soundtrack?

"It brought in a lot of things, images of Sinbad and Aladdin and a few other things as well, a bit of Pinocchio, yes there is some Disney in there. It's a celebration of film. It's my celebration of films that influenced me and it's by far the most vastly detailed track I've ever recorded. It's certainly orchestra plus and the upwards of at least 300 tracks so it was a mammoth thing to stick together. The computer wouldn't even play it back at first! Roger had to update his computer just for this one song. I hope he will forgive me for this."

He probably will! Maybe it's nice for our readers to reveal something about the second disc of the special edition?

"Well of course! Disc two is mainly a collection of guitar solos, an occasional song and a bit of classical music. There are one or two tracks that have come up for renewal: the Japanese used to ask for two extra tracks for each album and of some of my favourites, the rights reverted back to us so I included one or two of those like for instance the Focus track, I'm talking about the band Focus. That beautiful slow on Moving Waves called Tommy; it was part of Eruption, a really beautiful guitar melody Jan Akkerman played and  wrote. There's also a really cool version of Airconditioned Nightmare that we've called Reconditioned Nightmare, just done by the two of us, Roger and myself. The opening track has Chris Squire and Simon Phillips on it and then it goes to a series of improvisations. Those tracks are called the Four Winds. They are all  different version of tracks that are all 'blowing' in the literal sense of the word and there's a lot of improvisation going on, but they are all very different in nature."

Recently you played electric guitar for a lovely track on John Wetton's latest album Raised In Captivity as well as acoustic for Rob Reed (Magenta)? 

"Yes it's a lovely album John Wetton has done and his voice is as spectacular as ever.  I played on a track called Goodbye Elsinore and I loved playing on this song. I did a deliberately very simple guitar solo for him, nothing flash, just something that provided an alternative to the vocal melody. I loved the chorus on that track! I did some acoustic for Rob Reed and that too sounded very beautiful indeed and also I did some stuff for Steven Wilson on his forthcoming album."

How do people get hold of you to do these guest appearances?

"Mm, I tend to work with friends, just for the fun of it, know what I mean? I don't think of myself as a session player and fortunately I don't need to do that for a living. I like to work with friends and I don't draw the distinction: if someone is doing something interesting musically and I get to work on it, I think automatically we become friends, because we've shared a deep passion for music. Those three that we've been talking about, they were all very interesting in different ways. Oh yeah, Gary Husband too, I work with Gary on something of his, an album called Dirty & Beautiful, featuring John McLaughlin amongst others. The album features many guitarists and I'm proud to be one of them."

Matt Groom of Big Beak Productions is working on a documentary on you?

"Yes, he has been working on a documentary, but this isn't something I've employed him to do, it's something he wanted to do himself. Every now and then he comes in to film something, but I have no idea how it's going to turn out. He does something else for a living, which is running RSK, but his background was in film making so a real look at backstage and me struggling to play certain guitar parts and what it takes to before things are perfect, know what I mean?"

Will it be covering your whole history?

"I think it will cover quite a bit, but it all depends on whether he will get hold of footage from way back or whether he keeps it contemporary. He 's the filmmaker you know and I am just the interviewee!"

Can you reveal something of the setlist of the forthcoming concerts in the fall?

"I've just been talking with Amanda Lehmann about this yesterday. We hope to be able to play the central tracks of the new album. We were talking about the possibility to play Loch Lomond and The Phoenix Flown and we want to be able to Waiting To Life with her singing. I'm looking at other tracks as well such as Prairie Angel and A Place Called Freedom. I'd like to include those as well. We might be able to do Two Faces Of Cairo, that would be track six from the album. You know it depends, I'm not sure at the moment. Some things rely more on production, some things more on playing. In the rehearsal room we'll find out what we will be able to play."

"Any ideas which of the older songs we will be hearing live?

"Well, there are some ideas but these decisions will be made in the rehearsal room and we have to see what we can do in the available time too."

Oh, but we wouldn't mind you playing two and a half hours!

"Well, thank you! Actually some of these last shows were as long as two hours and twenty minutes, but it's hard to keep everyone happy. I stopped playing Spectral Mornings for a while, because I wanted to play some of these other things, but there seems to have been a backlash of protest so I've started playing that again."

Last year in Zoetermeer you played Spectral Mornings indeed.

"Oh well, maybe what I have to do is to remember what I played in each individual territory because in some territories we didn't perform that track. Some people want to hear stuff from 1973, others are hungry for the future. I'll try to strike a balance as much as possible and keep everybody happy and I hope people will be happy with the new album."

No doubt in my mind they will! Is there any particular kind of music  you listen to yourself?

"I listen to many things. Recently I've been listening quite to a lot to singers funny enough and I like the hybrid of styles. I tend to like singers with a fast vibrato in their voice. I 'm thinking of  Ney Matogrosso (Brazil) or Bob Seeger, very emotional voices and not to forget Roy Orbison. So if I could sound like any of those people, I would be quite a singer indeed. Meanwhile I'm essentially a guitarist who's filling for a missing vocalist, that's my take on it you know. I play but I also sing to stretch the possibilities further."

Once I'read on your website that you still regret the decision to leave Genesis, but then again we wouldn't have had all those 27 magnificent solo albums?

"Oh yeah! Well, to be honest I don't regret the decision to leave Genesis and that might sound like a contradiction in time. Part of my heart is always with Genesis, but it was made clear to me in Genesis that I couldn't be part of the band and also have a solo career. I felt that I owed my allegiance to music over and above my allegiance to what was arguably the world's best band. Unfortunately even if I'd been a member of The Beatles, I think that if I'd had to subordinate all my musical aspirations in favour of the group whole, I still would have made the same decision. Basically my whole relationship with music is to reinvest everything, whether it's financial or  emotional, back into music, that's just what I do. It's its own currency and its own reward and if I can keep funding things, that's good. Luckily the latest album did better than in a long time and where other people's sales have been going down, mine ended up going up. For an album that was made in the living room! I can't work out why that is the case, maybe just a combination of people and ideas."

Isn't it true that when you're in a deep emotional crisis you tend to come up with the best ideas?

"I think so yes, an emotional crisis may lead to musical highlights to compensate this emotional crisis because you're desperate to get that across in your music. Adversity can often produce some of the best work, but it's a hell of a thing to go through and a hell of a price to pay to come up with those gems! Still the magic comes from the audience. Singers and musicians do what they always do, but the response from the audience creates the event. We're just the performers..."

I don't think the feedback will be favourable if your performance would be lousy, now would it?

"Surely you have to perform, but sometimes the job can be done for you, there's enough grounds for support. It's not as if every act has to prove itself over and over again with every gig: I went to see Blind Faith years ago and a friend of mine said 'these guys already proved themselves' and I think he was absolutely right."

What will be your next endeavour?

"The next thing will be a DVD. I'm mixing a DVD from the last live show we did in London at Shepherd's Bush and we're mixing that in 5.1."

Does it have a different setlist from the shows in the Netherlands early in 2010?

"I think there were some changes. I've got a feeling in 2010 we may not have been playing Shadow Of The Hierophant and Sierra Quemada. There was also a guest spot from John Wetton and we did a version of All Along The Watchtower and Steven Wilson is on there too."

That's great news and no doubt it will be awesome to see you and the band in Zoetermeer in November and I will surely be in that audience.

"Thanks very much Menno, be seeing you then!"